Curse

Shendaar · Apr 26, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Normally I wouldn't care, but the lack of proper trade system(even after 2 years!) just makes this post by Gaile(I know it's not her fault) sound like a complete farce.

blackbird71 · Apr 26, 2007, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

I agree, Anet should take note of those suggestions. That said, I can't help but feel that you and other posters are presupposing that Anet isn't living up to those suggestions. When Gaile posted to explain the reasoning behind the update, she was ripped apart before anyone even tried to understand her comments. Instead of looking at the update notes with an open mind, many posters nitpicked them for any chance to accuse her of lying.

Then she should take care not to post such obvious contradictions. I'm sorry, but if she's been a PR rep for this long and doesn't understand the nature of the job or the community she interracts with, then something is wrong. I absolutely do not condone the actions of those who resorted to personal insults. That being said, whenever a statement of potential "bad news" is made by a company rep to it's customers/investors, they will examine what was said from every angle and find the flaws. There have been enough flaws pointed out here to raise suspicion, and even more suspicious is the lack of explanation. Even when these concerns are raised on othere sites, all I have seen is a repetition of the same statements as to what Anet's intent is, and not the why or how of it. They are basically saying, "trust us, we know what we're doing, even if it looks completely opposite." I'm sorry, not good enough, if you want my trust, you're going to have to stop insulting my intelligence and give me some sort of explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

It's ironic that ArenaNet is being accused for not listening to players, while on other (more respectful) forums, Gaile has spent the last several days collecting numerical user feedback to report back to the developers so they can remedy some of the perceived problems with the loot system. Respect is a two-way street, and if certain players can't exhibit a minimal amount of self-restraint, ArenaNet has no obligation to take their criticisms seriously..

While I agree that respect both ways is absolutely necessary for truly meaningful dialogue, a lack of respect shown by a few in no way absolves Anet of obligations to paying customers. As far as I'm concerned, Anet threw the first punch by feeding us a half-baked story about how good their intentions were without giving any real substance that could stand up to scrutiny. It's insulting to suggest that we could not see the blatant contradictions and fallacies, and even more insulting that since then, they have remained silent, which as far as I"m concerned only reinforces my opinions about their disconnect from the playerbase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

From my personal experience, my friends and guildmates have not been significantly affected by the update, except for hard mode, which many of them are enjoying.

The reality of the situation is probably somewhere in the middle. The only way to know for sure how the update will affect all players is to have access to player data, so only ArenaNet will have the best view of the big picture.

I would also caution you on your extrapolation of player opinions to the full population. With a population of 3 million players, you would need to sample hundreds of randomly selected players to get any sort of accurate picture of the situation. Choosing all your samples from the same guild or the same forum is hardly meaningful at all, as it will introduce significant bias.

I do the best with what I've got. I take in what Anet tells me, what I see with my own eyes, what I'm told by people I trust, and I add it all up. That's the best I have to go on since I don't have the resources to conduct a massive polling effort of players. The simple fact is that a massive, in depth study should not be required to tell the players, "hey, guess what? You're game is still good!" If my perception of the game is that it is no longer as fun as it once was, then Anet has done something wrong. If I were just one lone voice complaining, I could be ignored and written off as an anomaly. However, in as much as forums like these are a semi-decent sampling of players, I think there are enough with the same concerns that Anet has some serious explaining to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Also, I am confused as to what makes whites & blues more fun than purples & golds? At least the rare items can be USED if not sold.

Who said that whites and blues were "more fun?" They may not be fun, but whites and blues are the bread and butter of the casual farmer, while the occasional rare is the filet mignon. It's nice when you get it once in a while, but you can't live off of it alone, it's too rare of an occurence to be fulfilling. I realize that the problem is that this is the same method that the bots use to make money. From this though, it should be inherently obvious that any attempt to control bots through loot rates will have a significant impact on a large portion of the players as well. If Anet felt that the sacrifice of those players' experience was worth it to make a hit against bots, fine, that could be considered a valid decision. But don't make a change like this and then come here and tell us that it was done to make things easier for the casual player when it's obvious that the opposite is the actual effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

what do you mean "write off the entire thread"?
thinks like: We are reading the comments, but I have to tell you, a few of them are just "skim 'n' move on" because there's nothing of value but rants and rage-quit commentary.

Others have cautioned me about making generalizations based on the words of a few. Anet would do well to do the same. Automatically categorizing all complaints as "rants," and statements of leaving the game because of disinterest as "rage-quit commentary," means that they are throwing out a lot of rational well thought-out statements about what's wrong with their actions. This attitude only results in Anet deceiving themselves into believing that the situation is not as bad as it truly is. Going back to my SWG analogy, SOE continued with the NGE by telling themselves and the players that "sure there's opposition, but it's only a vocal minority." They minimized the problems in their own minds to the point that they ignored what the community had been screaming at them. Well, it didn't take long after the NGE for events to prove that the problems were a whole lot bigger than SOE pretended they were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Are completely reasonable. If you think that most people are giving solid, tested, reasonable advice, I disagree. I don't know, Gaile has been really good about this forum. She's had things wrong more than a few times, but I kind of expect that from everyone.

(boldface added for emphasis)

Which is exactly why many of us are cautious about simply taking her word on this one. Given the past history, you can't blame us for our skepticism.

cellardweller · Apr 27, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

You're presenting a false dichotomy. There is a middle ground between having eight skills and having 300 skills, and I am fully confident that the game can be enjoyed somewhere in that range, having done so with all of my characters.

Again, there is no area in the game that requires you to have every skill available to you. UAS is an option, not a requirement.

And I would say that 300 skills is about the right amount for a character has been played casually for 6 months (1-2 hrs/night being spread out accross 10 characters). It allows for most primary skills and ~5-20 skills from your secondary professions. I am equally confident of this because without changing skills after clearing an instance or two GW gets very old very fast.

Darksun · Apr 27, 2007, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

Who said that whites and blues were "more fun?"

Short answer, Nomen Mendax. But that was a discussion with him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

Automatically categorizing all complaints as "rants,"

Since she never categorized all complaints there should be no problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

..they are throwing out a lot of rational well thought-out statements about what's wrong with their actions.

Maybe, just maybe she's talking about people who really are contributing nothing. This is silly. Insulting comments, personal attacks & "uninstall successful" images hardly constitute well thought-out statements. There is nothing proving they don't like feedback. There are way too many reasons for them not adding features people request to assume that they just ignore us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbird71

Which is exactly why many of us are cautious about simply taking her word on this one. Given the past history, you can't blame us for our skepticism.

I can if your skepticism is unrealistic. There is alot more crap dumped from this forum than from ANET. You honestly think Gaile has no good reason to be skeptical of the garbage that come from some people here? You gotta be kidding me. This thing goes both ways. Gaile's track record might not be perfect, but it blows away the collective honesty/accuracy of this forum.

boko · Apr 27, 2007, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

There is no data to support this phantom inflation. And it will take more than a week to see changes. Are tombs uber expensive? Of course. Every new item is. You certainly can't use that as an example. Black dye went up far before the scaling.

I never said that there was going to be a huge inflation. What i was saying if you read carefully , instead of trying to hear what you wanted to hear, is that the economy is going to be about the same. You are reading too far in the "if not an inflation" bit. In no way, did I say that there was going to be a certain inflation. The possiblity of an inflation or recession is still there, and will still be there whether the update is here or not. The previous incarnation of the update ,on the other hand, is something different and did ,in fact, incline more towards an inflation. Hence, the "if not an inflation". But I have to agree that this was poorly written and was open to misinterpretation. Apologies on that.

You mention "tombs". But who are getting those items? As far as i know, they only drop in hard mode. It's not really where the casual gamers are. That means that you are infact proving how right my argument was in the 1st place. The poor gets poorer and rich gets richer.

So, no, that did not cause a huge recession in prices or even a huge inflation. So, what was the purpose of that update then? Was it not to make things more available to casual gamers? And how is it making things more available to casual gamers?

As I said before, for this update to work as intended, Anet should add alternate way of revenue for the casual players. Suggestions are plenty on this thread. But, on its own, this update does nothing in helping the casual gamers as it claims to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

As I said before, It doesn't matter that cash is still coming in, it always will.

This is also what I said. The one that said otherwise was Arcanemacabre, not me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

You need to control the rate & how it comes in. They are trying to focus it so that people who farm get better items and sell them to players, instead of just tons of gold. That means the low end farmers that you say are getting hammered have an easier time getting rares. (since normal mode is a bit easier & rares don't scale).

What you are missing is that most of the time, "rare" as you say, does not even warrant their status of rare. Most of the time, the rare are crap. 90% of the rare drops are useless. The perfect one or rare skin are way too erratic to really be considered as a good source of income. That's like relying on a lottery to sustain your basic need.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

This may all go nowhere but their logic is sound and I don't see this economic panic that people are complaining about actually manifesting itself).

That's the problem. It does not fix the economy nor makes it worse. There is going to be no real change in the economy as far as I see. It will always fluctuate. New drops when they are 1st found will always cost a lot, and their prices will drop during the following weeks if not days.

The people who brought the economy in the discussion in the 1st place was in fact those who favoured the update. Saying that there is going to be a huge recession due to that, which I have yet to see. The whole statement that the economy is going to get worse is nothing more than a direct response to the claim that there will be a huge recession. IMO, both are far-fetched. Prices are going to stay about the same, but the purchasing power of rich people will increase while those of the casual/poor people will decrease.

What you dun't understand is that people are not panicking because of the imaginary argument "the economy is going to get worse". People are worried because they will have to grind even more to even afford the basic need. More Grind = less fun.

PvE is already broken as it is. Teamplay is almost inexistant with addition of heroes. Increasing the grind for casual gamers is just like kicking the casual gamers right where it hurts the most.

arcanemacabre · Apr 27, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

This also what I said too. The one that said otherwise was Arcanemacabre, not me.

Wait, I said what now? In regards to the slowing of inflation? Look, there will be less cash coming in on the whole - meaning a slowing of inflation. I never said it would stop, nor turn around and head in the other direction. In fact, I distinctly remember saying that, like in real life, you cannot stop inflation, only slow it down. A sign of a good economy is one where inflation is at an all time low.

When comparing an online game's economy to a RL economy, there is that one big factor that changes things - the constant "creation" of money. It's true that it exists in real life, as well, but at a very manageable and slow rate. However, unlike RL, there are gold sinks. This is generally designed to counter-act the creation of gold. There are a lot of gold sinks in GW, granted, but like I said before, very few of them are required. This includes merchant items like ID kits/Salvage kits, and of course, skills.

The point I was making is that now the creation of gold will slow down and get near the gold sink rate. When that happens, very little gold is actually produced on the whole. Sure, the botting agencies can "just operate 8x the bots to meet the demand", but guess what: 8x more bots everywhere make them a heck of a lot more conspicuous and easier to trap and ban via Anet. I'm comfortable with that.

Anyway, I'm in agreeing with others as far as an overall increase in wealth among all players - via better rewards for questing, etc. This should be done, definately. If inflation is going to happen, at least give everyone a chance to keep up. The keyless chests in Nightfall were a great first step, IMO.

I also agree that there is a huge issue with the [lack of a] trading system. This seriously needs to be fixed, as well, so that everyone has a chance to be a trader, rather then just the very shrew, or those with too much time on their hands. These things need to be addressed to compliment this "farming nerf", if it's to be even considered as a good idea. Right now it's a half-assed mind fart at best, ya know, like most of the things they do.

Amy Awien · Apr 27, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

What inflation? Superior Vigors cost about half compared to 18 months ago, other runes and dyes are cheaper too and mods - at least the ones I am interest in - seem more easily available and cheaper.

How do you measure 'inflation' to come to the conclusion that there is inflation?

Nexus Icon · Apr 27, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

The only thing I have to say on the whole issue of runes and the supply of them is that all runes should drop with equal frequency. No one rune should be rarer than the next.
All runes should cost the same amount too, preferably 100g.
Having to gimp your build because you can't afford that superior vigour or superior death magic rune just sucks, especially when other superiors are dirt cheap by comparison.

If ANet really were serious about the co-existence of PvP and PvE, they would make this so. Making it so that certain runes are rarer than others and cost more than others creates an unbalanced playing field from the very start.

TabascoSauce · Apr 27, 2007, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus Icon

The only thing I have to say on the whole issue of runes and the supply of them is that all runes should drop with equal frequency. No one rune should be rarer than the next.
All runes should cost the same amount too, preferably 100g.
Having to gimp your build because you can't afford that superior vigour or superior death magic rune just sucks, especially when other superiors are dirt cheap by comparison.

I think you have a really good point. About prices and rarity, the following is not an authoritative statement merely an observation, that ANet has already shown that prices on the trade channel can be influenced in the time span of a weekend with double drops for greens halving prices.

If the drop rate for runes of all types was to simply double, then I do not think I am going out on a limb to say that prices at the rune traders would go down. Since I do not know the price algorithm for the traders, who knows how much it will go down.

Would that put more money into the economy? For a short while, there would be a spike while the super-expensive runes are sold to the traders. Once their prices go down, then Sup Vig will no longer be like winning a lotto ticket.

I think that would smooth out the flow of money from the traders into the economy, and allow the poorer players greater access to the better runes.

I know there is another negative in there somewhere, and I am sure that someone will come along and explain it to me.

Other than runes becoming more common and an initial spike in currency from the traders as the expensive runes decrease in price, I see no negatives.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Nomen Mendax · Apr 27, 2007, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Short answer, Nomen Mendax. But that was a discussion with him.

Actually I said they were the "major reward" from low level farming. I meant in terms of the total gold earned from a single run, though the sentence wasn't as clear as I'd have liked which is what led to the misunderstanding.

Quote:

There is alot more crap dumped from this forum than from ANET. You honestly think Gaile has no good reason to be skeptical of the garbage that come from some people here? You gotta be kidding me. This thing goes both ways. Gaile's track record might not be perfect, but it blows away the collective honesty/accuracy of this forum.

I haven't been around long enough to discuss Gaile's track record but I'd tend to agree with what you are saying here. But I still have a problem with her leaving the thread because:

There is no ANet moderated forum to post on where we can assume that they read the comments, and where they can moderate it as they see fit.

I'm assuming part of her job is to comment on these forums, which means I'd expect her to put up with a certain amount of flak (how much is too much, is of course, a reasonable question).

I don't agree with ignoring the whole thread just because you object to the comments of a few people.

Part of it, is that I don't see the thread as a collective voice, so I'd like to see ANet deal with the posts as each post deserves (which may well mean skim and ignore most of them).

On a different point, does anyone know the effect of the loot scaling on going out with a smaller party? I think ANet have stated that solo farmers get somewhere in between 1/8 and 1/2 of the expected loot drops (but it seemed pretty vague). What happens if you go out with 4 or 5 people in an area designed for 8? If anyone knows or has heard any specifics I'd be interested in hearing them.

Dj Tano · Apr 27, 2007, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Why dont you just go to the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing roots of the problem and prevent gold farming?!

Revan Bastille · Apr 27, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

From a local chat on April 25, Gaile said the following:

Quote:

"We have no plans to add an auction house to Guild Wars. Perhaps it will be something for GW2. I don't know.

Yes, many players may want an easy way to sell, and they may have that in Guild Wars 2. But from what i understand... we won't be adding an auction house to Guild Wars."

To quote Gaile in her "Farming and Loot Scaling" post:

Quote:

"The bottom line is that ArenaNet's goal is to make it easier for normal players to make money"

ArenaNet understands that people enjoy playing Guild Wars in many different ways, and our goal is to make each of those ways fun and rewarding.

A major theme of our most recent update is that the game should be friendlier and more rewarding for casual players, including casual solo farmers

ArenaNet's goal is to make it easier for normal players to make money, so that they can buy the things they need without having to purchase gold for cash, and then to redirect the farming activities of the most advanced players so that the way they make money is by selling things to other players rather than by introducing a flood of new gold into the economy.

Thus, our goal is that solo farmers can still earn as much money as they did before, but they'll have to earn it in different ways. Instead of looking for things to sell to merchants, solo farmers should now be looking for things to sell to traders or other players.

all emphasis added

The nerf to the gold drops meant that people would be relying on selling to merchants and other players, as Anet intended. The fact that ArenaNet is not planning/going to have an Auction system while saying that casual farmers should still make similar amounts of money is ludicrous, in my opinion. Over the past week, I've become very disenchanted with GW as I watch the titles I've been working for become more and more out of reach (and my required farming time go up). I don't see anything easier, fun and/or rewarding about that at all.

I've never really considered breaking the EULA and making bots to farm, but over the past week, it's become a lot more tempting. (Now, I have not and never would actually make bots, so please don't start reporting me to Anet.) On that note, from what I've seen the number of bots has only INCREASED since the farm nerf, not to mention the increased price of GW gold on Ebay.

I'm not ready to give up on Guild Wars yet, Anet has usually responded to the outcry of their customers. I hope the current lack of info from Anet means they're looking into this and not saying, "This is how it's going to be from now on. Tough luck." If the latter is the case (and I'm worried about GW2), I might switch over to LotRO or another game... or I might just get a real life.

Saint Troy · Apr 27, 2007, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Methinks that ANet and Gaile could use some "Mistake!" opera singers.

See "Scrubs" the TV series for more information

Darksun · Apr 27, 2007, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

I never said that there was going to be a huge inflation. What i was saying if you read carefully , instead of trying to hear what you wanted to hear........Hence, the "if not an inflation". But I have to agree that this was poorly written and was open to misinterpretation. Apologies on that.

Maybe I'm "trying to hear what I wanted to hear" or maybe now you're just covering your butt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

You mention "tombs". But who are getting those items? As far as i know, they only drop in hard mode. It's not really where the casual gamers are. That means that you are infact proving how right my argument was in the 1st place. The poor gets poorer and rich gets richer.

No It means exactly what I said it means. It's not a good gauge of inflation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

So, no, that did not cause a huge recession in prices or even a huge inflation. So, what was the purpose of that update then? Was it not to make things more available to casual gamers? And how is it making things more available to casual gamers?

How can people not see this even after I keep pointing it out. Talk about hearing what you want to hear:
"These "nurfs" are much more complex then people give them credit. And having to balance stopping bots, controlling the economy, keeping the value & rarity of items reasonable, adjusting the difficulty of the game, & making sure it's still fun (which is relative to each of those points since any of them can make it not fun)"

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

What you are missing is that most of the time, "rare" as you say, does not even warrant their status of rare. Most of the time, the rare are crap. 90% of the rare drops are useless. The perfect one or rare skin are way too erratic to really be considered as a good source of income. That's like relying on a lottery to sustain your basic need.

That's true, it is like relying on the lottery in a sense, but I don't think it's that drastic. As for what I am "missing" here; 1 good purple item can bring in more gold than 50 blues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

What you dun't understand is that people are not panicking because of the imaginary argument "the economy is going to get worse". People are worried because they will have to grind even more to even afford the basic need. More Grind = less fun.

But the update effects solo farmers more than anyone. Those aren't casual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomen Mendax

Actually I said they were the "major reward" from low level farming. I meant in terms of the total gold earned from a single run, though the sentence wasn't as clear as I'd have liked which is what led to the misunderstanding.

I know, I didn't even want to bring you into this because we actually understood each other. That's why I said "short story" ie:me being lazy and not wanting to explain the whole story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomen Mendax

I haven't been around long enough to discuss Gaile's track record but I'd tend to agree with what you are saying here. But I still have a problem with her leaving the thread because:

Honestly, she rarely posts more than 3 times in a thread. So there only being 1 post in a thread isn't really "her leaving".

Darksun · Apr 27, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revan Bastille

On that note, from what I've seen the number of bots has only INCREASED since the farm nerf, not to mention the increased price of GW gold on Ebay.

2 things:
1) the number has not gone up since the nerf. It's been bad for a few Months. It was still WAY worse in Elona Reach.
2) If the price is going up that means it's working. They only charge more if the gold is harder to get.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revan Bastille

I might switch over to LotRO or another game... or I might just get a real life.

LoTRO is pretty lame. This is coming from someone who loves the LoTR. It's SO generic.

darkknightdominator · Apr 27, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

With this drop in drop rates of more common items, I now find myself WANTING to farm ecto. Since the common drops whites worth 50g etc are no longer profitable for me. I no longer get enough of anything common to make runs worthwhile. So now im going to have to do ecto farming. Or i could give up playing the game....No, i dont like PvP, but i was saving to buy fissure armor. But now it takes four hours to get 10k when it used to take under an hour. Totally not worth it. (argue the worth it/not worth it nature of 10k in under an hour all u want, i cant farm fissure or UW or tombs, nor do i like to)

Thanks for completely ruining it for me. :-)

Revan Bastille · Apr 27, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

2 things:
1) the number has not gone up since the nerf. It's been bad for a few Months. It was still WAY worse in Elona Reach.
2) If the price is going up that means it's working. They only charge more if the gold is harder to get.

LoTRO is pretty lame. This is coming from someone who loves the LoTR. It's SO generic.

1) Yes, I understand that it has been bad for several months, but I've personally seen an increase in the number of bots in certain areas over the past week. I suppose Anet would be the only ones who could say for sure either way about this.

2) According to the laws of supply and demand, if supply (of gold) goes down, then the demand (for gold) will go up and the prices will go up as well. This being the case, I believe that the bot farm owners will not only continue to operate, but thrive -- since there is more real world profit involved. The bots don't care if they get 1/5 or 1/8 the amount of gold that they used to on each run, the owners can just buy more accounts and farm, farm, farm. It is my opinion that the farming nerf did more to help bots than the legitimate players.

Also, thank you for your opinion on LotRO. However, I tested the game during the free beta, and it looked pretty cool to me, although it was a bit WoW-ish.

Mordakai · Apr 27, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Off-topic: Is the LotRO Free Beta officially over? I was gonna check it out...

Revan Bastille · Apr 27, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Off-topic: Is the LotRO Free Beta officially over? I was gonna check it out...

I believe the beta ended on April 24th.

blackbird71 · Apr 27, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

When comparing an online game's economy to a RL economy, there is that one big factor that changes things - the constant "creation" of money. It's true that it exists in real life, as well, but at a very manageable and slow rate. However, unlike RL, there are gold sinks. This is generally designed to counter-act the creation of gold. There are a lot of gold sinks in GW, granted, but like I said before, very few of them are required. This includes merchant items like ID kits/Salvage kits, and of course, skills.

Slightly off topic, and more of just an FYI, but there are "gold sinks" in RL as well, they're not as obvious or prominent, just as the creation of new money is not the same in RL as in GW. Once again, in the U.S., the Federal Reserve uses a variety of tactics to keep economic growth stable. One such tactic is the use of what could be called "gold sinks," by issuing bonds and other methods, the Federal Reserve can remove currency from circulation for a period of time, thereby affecting the strength of the dollar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

Maybe, just maybe she's talking about people who really are contributing nothing. This is silly. Insulting comments, personal attacks & "uninstall successful" images hardly constitute well thought-out statements. There is nothing proving they don't like feedback. There are way too many reasons for them not adding features people request to assume that they just ignore us.

Actually, I wasn't thinking strictly of Gaile or Anet with this comment. I'm sorry if I misunderstood, but it seemed to me that you were the one implying that there was nothing meaningful or worth considering in these forums based on a few posts out of many.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I can if your skepticism is unrealistic. There is alot more crap dumped from this forum than from ANET. You honestly think Gaile has no good reason to be skeptical of the garbage that come from some people here? You gotta be kidding me. This thing goes both ways. Gaile's track record might not be perfect, but it blows away the collective honesty/accuracy of this forum.

What is so unrealistic about my skepticism? If someone has been wrong not once, but repeatedly, why should I automatically accept what they say? As far as I can tell, you're categorizing most of the comments in these forums based on a few loud voices, who are by no means the majority. And the "collective honesty/accuracy of this forum" is irrelevant to Gaile's credibility, even if every poster here is 100% wrong, it doesn't make her or anyone else any more right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darksun

But the update effects solo farmers more than anyone. Those aren't casual.

If this is the assumption on which you base your arguments, I can see why you're having trouble understanding our complaints. Yes, there are solo farmers who do nothing but farm. There is also a large number of casual players(and there have been many posts to this effect) who mainly just play through the game, but who also solo farm occasionally as a means of earning gold to supplement their gameplay. It is these solo farmers (who are in fact casual players) who have the greatest complaint against Anet over this update. Anet said that the changes would make the game easier for us, when as you've pointed out, it has made it harder by damaging solo farming. If Anet wants to limit or remove solo farming, fine, but they need to understand what effect it really has on their casual players. If they truly want to make things easier on the casual player, they can't remove their source of income without at least replacing it with something else. And no, Hard Mode doesn't count, that is most definetely moving beyond the realm of the casual player.